sable_twilight ([info]sable_twilight) wrote,
@ 2009-06-20 10:03:00
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Current mood: annoyed

*sigh*
Got into a bit of discussion about the character dynamics of the Twilight series. It seems the point I am attempting to make is entirely lost on the people involved with the thread, and now it seems that for some of the people the energy in invested how Edwards actions really are not that creepy, that it's okay because he's a vampire and human laws wound not really apply, or that times have changes and laws are transitory things, etc.

And over all it seems they are entirely missing the point of what I am attempting to say. Beyond that, it's like it's purposefully being ignored or glossed over. I still have so much more to say on this topic, but since the discussion seems to be getting nowhere, I am not going to clutter my the comments page.

Which is: Why is Edward still in high school, claiming to be a high school student? And why is this okay?

My issue is not the age differences between the characters. I could not care less about the age differences. And even though I did point out the dynamics of age of consent, I honestly don’t care about those laws.

My issue is that non-youth individual invading youth space, claiming to be a youth. Why does Edward Cullen, who has theoretically learned everything they can from high school, still need to pass himselves off as a high schooler? And when one takes it into context the series my well be inspired by and exemplify many aspects of the LDS faith, particularly the concept of pre-ordained love, the only conclusion I can come to is that Edward Cullen was hanging around a high school to meet his per-destined mate.

What sort of messages is our society celebrating with the popularity of the series here?

I’m not sure if I can adequately convey the politics surrounding youth space to really explain why there is a huge difference between cross generational dating and passing oneself off as a youth for the sake of entering youth space and engage in cross generational dating. And why I feel one is perfectly acceptable and the other is not.


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[info]elegantblackcat
2009-06-20 04:47 pm UTC (link)
High school was the worst four years of my life. Why would an immortal with supernatural powers want to keep going back?

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[info]sable_twilight
2009-06-20 05:00 pm UTC (link)
exactly... well except that now that he has all these powers he can be the best at everything in high school...

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[info]parasina
2009-06-21 02:27 am UTC (link)
Imagine having to give the Valedictorian speech, over and over and over. Now, that is truly remorseful sacrifice ;-)

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[info]io_spellweaver
2009-06-20 05:20 pm UTC (link)
So does this mean to make you happy we all have to start claiming our true cumulative age? That'd suck.

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[info]sable_twilight
2009-06-20 05:26 pm UTC (link)
hmmmm... no.
I think resets, since they really do come with a new set of skills, experiences, and dynamics, are different than a continuous, uninterrupted lifetime.

I mean, they are resets for a reasons.

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[info]makhsihed
2009-06-20 05:24 pm UTC (link)
I think the logic in the books was that in order to stay hidden, the Cullen kids had to keep cycling through high school and college because they didn't look quiiite old enough to be adults / not be truants and didn't want to attract attention from the authorities/society in general.

The idea is that all the Cullen kids enroll in high school when moving to a new town, graduate high school and enroll in some college or another, and get another degree to add to the long list. Perpetual students, basically. It's a cover story more than "let's go into high school and date human kids".

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[info]sable_twilight
2009-06-20 05:34 pm UTC (link)
Oh, I totally understand the cover story. And I a personally attribute it to the fact that Meyer did not really think about the deeper implications or how the story could have been made to work without so much creepiness factor.

Or maybe I'm just thinking about things too much. *shurg*

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[info]makhsihed
2009-06-20 06:30 pm UTC (link)
Oh, there is a lot of creep factor in those books - but I think the fact that the vampires are in high school is the least of it. The reeeeally creepy part was Edward watching Bella in her sleep. Every night. And her finding this romantic. Yes. Apparently stalkers are romantic. *gag*

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[info]freeko
2009-06-20 08:08 pm UTC (link)
I was told that I am not romantic. Thats fine because at least I am not a stalker.

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[info]teal_cuttlefish
2009-06-21 05:32 am UTC (link)
This is exactly what I came in here to comment about. He watches her sleep. He watches her from afar so he can save her. He carries her so she won't get hurt. Where is any of this less than creepy, stalkerish, and overpossessive?

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[info]hazelsteapot
2009-06-21 06:57 pm UTC (link)
Wait, I thought that was the definition of romantic.

:P

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[info]hazelsteapot
2009-06-21 07:04 pm UTC (link)
But even as a cover story... where do they get the money to be just cycling through HS & college all the time? ... :-/

And you're right, that's super creepy. However, it should be said that in all the vampire fiction I've seen (specifically thinking of Buffy & Angel, but more than that, e.g. Interview with...) the vampires act their visual age, not their chronological age. I mean, otherwise, Angel would be SO much more mature... (And then the creepiness of a >200year old dating a 16 year old would become apparent...coz yes it's creepy even if not rape and even if hot.)

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*sigh* Me too.
[info]parasina
2009-06-20 07:37 pm UTC (link)
I understand your exasperation. What I see is a lot of people seeking deeper meanings and profound conclusions from a kiddie book. I highly doubt the author really was doing much deep diving into the mythos of the vampire at all, but simply used her ingrained map (LDS) to chart out romantic high school bubble gum stories targeted at teen girls with excess video game money and the increasing 'horror' market. I was told by an author 7 years ago that the paperback publishers were out there fishing for someone who would marry the genres of horror and romance in something that would hit a broader market than just the lonely housewives looking for a thrill. Meyer hit the nail on the head.

What disturbs me about the effect these books are having on youth is that the girls are seeing that they should throw themselves in the way of danger because then the dark romantic figure will come rescue them. Ew and ewww! It teaching female helplessness and idiocy leads to wonderful things if only you act like a moron. A friend who teaches at a girls school has been asked to use this book for the Literature in Film class. She has staunchly refused on the grounds that it flies in the face of the school's stated mission to make balanced, independent, strong young women. Ouch.

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[info]freeko
2009-06-20 08:08 pm UTC (link)
I hated high school as a high schooler! I have no intention of repeating that.

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HS over and over again would be some sort of level in the Inferno.
[info]parasina
2009-06-20 11:09 pm UTC (link)
I'm with you. I felt like I was doing the fake repeat of HS when I was in it. All I could think was what a waste of time and that it was just to learn endurance of the masses. Ew. I could not be paid to go through a trial like that again. I even finished early because it was a pain in the butt and I learned nothing.

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[info]akaiyume
2009-06-20 09:49 pm UTC (link)
I think the reason it is not triggering as creepy in our minds is because of how deeply White Upper Class Conservative Religious Ideals have pervaded our culture. While many would go protest if something were presented as being because of religious ideology they don't blink when something *fits* with said mind-set but isn't expliciitly stated as being because of it.

"Good" girls aren't expected to have or want "space." It is perfectly acceptable/ seen as preferable for them to be subject to constant chaperonage in one way or another. Edward is just being a good future husband (you know the old fashioned head of household kind - and we wonder why child molestation is an epidemic in our culture) Already assuming the role of jailer daddy--- uhm... I mean protector and loving guide ahead of time.

It is creepy as hell.

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[info]sylvereapleanan
2009-06-22 12:55 am UTC (link)
The Cullens pretended to be young in order to hide from mortal perception. The younger humans believed them to be, the longer they could safely stay in one area. However, they didn't exactly invade youth space.

Until Bella came along, the Cullens kept to themselves. Their interaction with the other students was kept to a minimum. Meyer explicitly states this because the other students consider the Cullens stand-offish. Everyone is astounded that Bella not only starts dating Edward, but becomes best friends with Alice.

That's one of the reasons Rosalie was so upset, initially, that Edward was even speaking to Bella. None of them wanted to upset the delicate balance and ruin the cover they'd created. It was *Bella* who pushed the boundary and pursued Edward. He tried to distance himself from her on several occasions, including breaking up with her and leaving Forks with the intent of never speaking to her again.

If there's any influence of LDS religious beliefs at work, then it's that true love conquers all and cannot be denied, regardless of the choices or fears of the people involved. Very romantic and idealistic, but no worse than a Harlequin novel.

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