sable_twilight (![[info]](http://p-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif){kind=small} sable_twilight) wrote,@ 2008-05-05 14:06:00 |
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A rant about the discounting of trans-peoples' childhood experiences...
...in the people-born-with-vaginas-only spaces debate
There is a post on another journal I read that links to a post made on another person's journal (sorry if that was confusing) about their argument for why transwomen should not be allow in 'women-born-women' spaces (a term that really chaffs my hide).
summary of the argument
To summarize with the original poster said is they feel that transwomen should not be allowed in because:
They display male privilege by their assumption they should be allowed in those spaces, going so far to write in another community journal that "it's privilege to assume that you should be allowed places where you're not wanted" in a different community (we'll do our best to ignore the entire civil right movement here)
The assumption that transwomen have never looked at their privileged experiences.
And, the one that really takes the cake, that all people born with penises have the same sort of experiences and encouragement growing up. That there are essentially only two types of childhood experiences – girls experiences and boys experiences.
I am not linking to either the original journal nor the journal that I found the link to the original post. I apologize if that makes understanding this a little more challenging. I apologize to the friend that I found the discussion on for not linking back to your journal. I just didn't want to encourage any sort of invading of journals or anything like that. It's not really necessary to convey my feeling about the topic here.
My shorter, more blunt response
Oh, my experiences growing up were essentially the same as cisgender males growing up? Wow, I'm glad you told me that, because I would have never gotten that impression from my end of things.
I really appreciate how you have just minimized and discounted my experiences of being trans in a transphoic world. Those were really not that important or shaping to me anyway. Who am I to ever think they were?
Thank you nice white lady.
A slightly longer, more sophisticated, but no less snarky response
Oh yes, I was totally encouraged to be loud, self confident, domineering, to ask questions, to be assertive. I was never harassed and ridiculed by peers and family members when I tried to be these things.
Thank you for making assumptions about *my* childhood and what I was taught and encouraged to believe about myself. If I had not heard about what my childhood was like and what I learned from some one never lived it, nor even knows the first thing about it, I would have never have known.
The lessons of a boy may or may not disappear over time. But the biggest flaw in your argument is seeing transgender people as having grown up in the same way and with the same lessons as cisgender people. We don't. We are not comfortable in our assigned gender roles and gender identity and it permeates virtually every aspect of our lives. To say that trans people receive the same lessons growing up is to minimize and discount our very real experiences in a transphobic society.
I did not grow up as a boy. I grew up as a person born with a penis who was out of place and very uncomfortable with the assigned gender role and expectations placed on me. That because of that, because I could not those expectations – nor did I want to – I experienced harassment, ridicule, threats and physical violence. I grew up as a person who didn't dare express my inner most wants and desires out of fear of receiving harassment, ridicule, threats and physical violence.
Now you tell me again how the life I have lead is the same as a cisgender male.
I am not using this as reasoning why I or other transwomen should be allowed in people-born-with-vaginas-only space – IMO, is a far more accurate description. I am asking that you stop using the fallacious logic that transgender peoples' experiences growing up in a in a transphobic society are the same as those growing up cisgender as the basis for that argument for the exclusion of transwomen in certain women's only spaces.
And I request that you respect my individual experiences and do not make assumptions about what you think my life was like and what privileges and lessons I may or may not have learned until I actually display them, just as I aim not to make those assumptions about other people.
on the phase 'women-born-women'
And dang it, I am so sick of the women-born-women phasing from people who are claiming to be supportive of transpeople. Do they not know how inherently offensive that is? If they can't handle saying cisgender-women only spaces, can they at least maybe use something a little more neutral and accurate, like say people-born-with-vaginas-only?
edit: minor things. one of these days i'm going to learn to proof-read *before* i post.
...in the people-born-with-vaginas-only spaces debate
There is a post on another journal I read that links to a post made on another person's journal (sorry if that was confusing) about their argument for why transwomen should not be allow in 'women-born-women' spaces (a term that really chaffs my hide).
summary of the argument
To summarize with the original poster said is they feel that transwomen should not be allowed in because:
They display male privilege by their assumption they should be allowed in those spaces, going so far to write in another community journal that "it's privilege to assume that you should be allowed places where you're not wanted" in a different community (we'll do our best to ignore the entire civil right movement here)
The assumption that transwomen have never looked at their privileged experiences.
And, the one that really takes the cake, that all people born with penises have the same sort of experiences and encouragement growing up. That there are essentially only two types of childhood experiences – girls experiences and boys experiences.
I am not linking to either the original journal nor the journal that I found the link to the original post. I apologize if that makes understanding this a little more challenging. I apologize to the friend that I found the discussion on for not linking back to your journal. I just didn't want to encourage any sort of invading of journals or anything like that. It's not really necessary to convey my feeling about the topic here.
My shorter, more blunt response
Oh, my experiences growing up were essentially the same as cisgender males growing up? Wow, I'm glad you told me that, because I would have never gotten that impression from my end of things.
I really appreciate how you have just minimized and discounted my experiences of being trans in a transphoic world. Those were really not that important or shaping to me anyway. Who am I to ever think they were?
Thank you nice white lady.
A slightly longer, more sophisticated, but no less snarky response
Oh yes, I was totally encouraged to be loud, self confident, domineering, to ask questions, to be assertive. I was never harassed and ridiculed by peers and family members when I tried to be these things.
Thank you for making assumptions about *my* childhood and what I was taught and encouraged to believe about myself. If I had not heard about what my childhood was like and what I learned from some one never lived it, nor even knows the first thing about it, I would have never have known.
The lessons of a boy may or may not disappear over time. But the biggest flaw in your argument is seeing transgender people as having grown up in the same way and with the same lessons as cisgender people. We don't. We are not comfortable in our assigned gender roles and gender identity and it permeates virtually every aspect of our lives. To say that trans people receive the same lessons growing up is to minimize and discount our very real experiences in a transphobic society.
I did not grow up as a boy. I grew up as a person born with a penis who was out of place and very uncomfortable with the assigned gender role and expectations placed on me. That because of that, because I could not those expectations – nor did I want to – I experienced harassment, ridicule, threats and physical violence. I grew up as a person who didn't dare express my inner most wants and desires out of fear of receiving harassment, ridicule, threats and physical violence.
Now you tell me again how the life I have lead is the same as a cisgender male.
I am not using this as reasoning why I or other transwomen should be allowed in people-born-with-vaginas-only space – IMO, is a far more accurate description. I am asking that you stop using the fallacious logic that transgender peoples' experiences growing up in a in a transphobic society are the same as those growing up cisgender as the basis for that argument for the exclusion of transwomen in certain women's only spaces.
And I request that you respect my individual experiences and do not make assumptions about what you think my life was like and what privileges and lessons I may or may not have learned until I actually display them, just as I aim not to make those assumptions about other people.
on the phase 'women-born-women'
And dang it, I am so sick of the women-born-women phasing from people who are claiming to be supportive of transpeople. Do they not know how inherently offensive that is? If they can't handle saying cisgender-women only spaces, can they at least maybe use something a little more neutral and accurate, like say people-born-with-vaginas-only?
edit: minor things. one of these days i'm going to learn to proof-read *before* i post.
